I'm more broken than you

[King Bob]

Time for me to weigh in here. I've been having episodes of terrible sour stomach with bad pain there and all the way across my back. The first time it happened I thought I might be having a heart attack, but decided no because my pulse was normal. The next few times I thought that it was acid reflux, but with a strange twist of sudden need to shit as well. Last time it was really painful and after a breakfast I've eaten many times, so I thought maybe I have an ulcer. I decided to go to the doctor, and after some tests it turns out that I have gallstones.

Apparently they operate to remove them, at least that's what I think based on my doctor's email. (Any of you know anything about this?) So I'll be scheduling that.

[thatguy]

Time for me to weigh in here. I've been having episodes of terrible sour stomach with bad pain there and all the way across my back. The first time it happened I thought I might be having a heart attack, but decided no because my pulse was normal. The next few times I thought that it was acid reflux, but with a strange twist of sudden need to shit as well. Last time it was really painful and after a breakfast I've eaten many times, so I thought maybe I have an ulcer. I decided to go to the doctor, and after some tests it turns out that I have gallstones.

Apparently they operate to remove them, at least that's what I think based on my doctor's email. (Any of you know anything about this?) So I'll be scheduling that.

Years and years ago, I had the same symptoms, but after an ultrasound, the doctor pronounced that I had "gall sludge" and suggested removing the gall bladder. We then consulted with a family friend that was a chinese herbalist and he recommended an over the weekend fast that began by drinking a cup of olive oil Friday evening, then drinking nothing but unfiltered apple juice for the entire weekend, then finishing it off with another cup of olive oil on Sunday evening. I did the routine and can say that the symptoms went away and I haven't had gall bladder issues since in spite of never changing my diet. YMMV. I didn't have actual gall stones. 

I will say that that first cup of olive oil is terrible and that second one is nearly impossible, but it did remind me of your way to handle for a night of drinking in which you don't want to get drunk by eating a stick of butter...

I went to trivia the other night and a friend brought another person I hadn't met before. We usually eat there and this guy had all kinds of diet restrictions because he had his gall bladder removed years ago and was pretty bitter about it. No nuts. No avocados. No cheese. Nothing with any fat in it. He said repeatedly to everyone to avoid having your gall bladder removed if you can.

Good luck! I know that hurts like a bitch. I recall is was what I imagined being run-through with a spear would feel like.

--tg

[King Bob]

I should point out that I only told TG about the butter; I never did it.

[Drunk Monk]

I've heard that about butter too but never tried it either. Seems so uneccesary - when I drink I want the full effect.

There is an ultrasound method of breaking up gallstones but they don't use it often anymore. It's used for those unable to survive surgery. I'd look into other methods like tg recommends. His is not the first success story I've heard. You'll still have to pass them which is extremely painful.

[cranefly]

I feel like I'm playing in the little leagues, compared to all your ailments; but I'll mention something of my own, more just because it's intriguing.

Last Sunday night I got up in the middle of the night to rummage through the medicine cabinet.  I was looking for some sort of cream to treat itching.  The outer side of my forearms, just below the elbow, were itching like mad -- to the point I couldn't sleep, to the point I couldn't control the urge to itch.  I found some neosporin, which didn't help much, but it took the edge off enough that I could sleep.

The next day I did a Google search and nailed it in an instant.  At least I'm nearly certain this is it.  Brachioradial pruritus.  It's becoming increasingly common in fair-skinned middle-aged individuals who engage in outdoor activities in sunny climates.  For this reason it is believed to be a form of photodermatosis (reaction to sunlight).  But there is also a school of thought that it is due to compression of cervical nerve roots.  In other words, there's damage to the cervical (neck) vertabrae.


Which is why I want to ask DM if he's ever had this weird itching in the forearms, knowing that he has problems with the cervical vertabrae.  Maybe I was imagining it, but my neck seemed to have a crick in it at about that time.  Tai Chi and especially Push Hands can do that to me, because I don't relax my shoulders enough.

[Drunk Monk]

I haven't experienced weird itching in my forearms.  Forearms are where I find mystery scratches, cuts and bruises. I'm told that's a sign of addiction. 

I do get itchy in my nether regions, but that's probably something else.  TMI?  Sorry, I'm in a weird mood.  It was a rough Monday yesterday.

[King Bob]

I get itchy arms or legs with too much sun, or sometimes when it's really hot and my skin on skin at night gives me a heat rash, but that's probably not it either. Benadryl will calm down itching (I've given it to the dog for that) but quality of sleep may suffer.

DM - apparently Kaiser doesn't do the ultrasound; they don't mention it. They can give you meds, but strongly discourage it, plus they want you on them forever. (And who knows what side effects they would have?) They just want to remove it. I'm watching my diet and haven't had another attack, so I think I may play it cool for a while and see how it goes. Unfortunately you can have severe problems from the attacks - bile into the liver or pancreas or infection of the bile duct - so both options (removing or no) look bad. Christina might go see her mom who is having a tumor removed, so I won't do anything until after that anyway. Oddly I never had pain in the gallbladder area until I had the ultrasound and they rubbed around there, and now I have low grade pain there all the time.

I have a preliminary appointment with the surgeon Friday and have questions.

[Drunk Monk]

It's not just Kaiser.  Ultrasound is pretty rare nowadays.  I'm not sure why exactly.  I just remember hearing about it in a convergence experiment one of my fellow grad students was doing for his dissertation like 30 years ago.   A little web search told me that it was reserved for patients who could not endure surgery, which is weird if it works.  Maybe surgeons just like to surge.  

There's a ton of dietotherapy stuff that deals with all of the maladies.  It's just sifting through all that crap to find something that works, assuming there is something.  I'm in denial but I should be doing that for my diabetes.  Stacy is all over that stuff.  She had to deal with some challenging issues over the past few years, and had to resort to going gluten-free, which helped immeasurably.

[Drunk Monk]

I know, I know, your issue is gallstones not kidney stones, but I thought of our discussion on alternate therapies when I saw this:

Riding A Roller Coaster Can Help Get Rid Of Kidney Stones
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[url=http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/]HEALTH AND MEDICINE


TOM.ARTHUR VIA FLICKR (CC BY-NC-SA 2.0)

By Ben Taub
26/09/2016, 21:43
Doctors may soon be prescribing trips to Disney World, after researchers discovered that taking a ride on one of its most iconic roller coasters can help kidney stones pass through the urinary system out of the body.
The study, which appears in the Journal of the American Osteopathic Association, was inspired by anecdotal reports about people passing their kidney stones after enjoying a spin on the Magic Kingdom’s Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. One man even claimed to have gone on the roller coaster three times in a row, passing one stone after each ride.
To figure out how reliable these claims were, the team created a 3D-printed model of that particular patient’s kidney, which they filled with urine before placing a real kidney stone in each of its upper, middle, and lower passageways. They then took their model with them as they rode Big Thunder Mountain 20 times, before analyzing the movement of these stones.
Amazingly, they found that stones placed in the kidney’s upper passage were dislodged on all 20 rides, although those in the lower passageways were somewhat more stubborn. They also found that sitting at the back of the ride led to a passage rate of just under two in three, while sitting at the front caused a passage rate of one in six.

The 3D-printed kidney that researchers took on the roller coaster with them. G.L. Kohuth, Michigan State University
Kidney stones form when calcium, ammonia, and cysteine build up into crystalized clumps as the kidneys filter them out of the blood. When these stones reach a certain size, they can block the ureter, which connects the kidneys to the bladder, or the urethra, which carries urineout of the body. This can cause intense pain and can lead to urinary tract infections if left untreated.

Large stones normally have to be surgically removed, although smaller stones are sometimes spontaneously passed out of the body in urine. In their study, the researchers found that riding on roller coasters can increase the likelihood of these smaller stones passing without the need for any intervention, thereby preventing the build-up of large stones.
Study co-author David Wartinger commented that “passing a kidney stone before it reaches an obstructive size can prevent surgeries and emergency room visits. Roller coaster riding after treatments like lithotripsy and before planned pregnancies may prevent stone enlargement and the complications of ureteral obstruction.”

[Dr. Ivor Yeti]

This might get me back to Disney Land!

---

King Bob, are the talking about removing the stones or removing the entire gallbladder, or is it just the bladder and that's it?

[Drunk Monk]

How did the surgeon meeting go, KB?

I should mention that Stacy was told to have her gall bladder removed because of stones about 3 years ago. She underwent a radical cleanse - no fats and regular magnesium. It was a rigorous regimen but she did herself of the problem. Her doc would never admit it was the cleanse and just passed it off as her having very small stones (which begs the question wtf the gallbladderectomy?)

If you want I can ask her what her regimen was. I don't remember the details. It was strict and took a while but it got the job done.

[King Bob]

Well of course they want to operate. There are drugs to dissolve stones but risk of liver damage so no thanks. I've been doing a vinegar cleanse (no fasting but vinegar and water 2x daily, and my diet is already restricted to prevent an attack - down 5-7lbs since 9/1) and seems to be no effect. Now hurts all the time, not sharp but achy and persistent. Doctor said that there was thickening of the gallbladder wall indicating a long term problem. I've talked to a couple of Christina's clients who had theirs out and have no real ill effects. So I am going to have it out. Confidentially I am really on the fence on this decision, but my wife leans that way and I have to give that some weight. Plus I get to take a week off work. That equals two more paintings this year. Interestingly, I read that most animals do not have gallbladders.

[Drunk Monk]

but my wife leans that way and I have to give that some weight. 

'nuf said there, bro.

When do you go under the knife?  Do you need any help with anything?

[King Bob]

DM thanks for your offer. You are a good friend and I find myself touched by it. I am going in on 11/7 and taking the whole week off. I've got a bunch of stuff in the Netflix list and several books I haven't read yet. Fortunately it's laparoscopic so no big incision in the abs.

[Dr. Ivor Yeti]

Well, good luck with the G-ectomy. My Grrl just had her appendix out, and it was a breeze. I hope yours is similarly uneventful.